Ok, because of a bit of an edit war, the Brick Mesa page is locked for a day and has been put back to how it was before the edit war began. Now go and work out what should be put on the page. I won't be able to help much on this part, as I know virtually nothing about the Black Mesa from Half-Life, so I'll just leave this between Brickenneer and PeabodySam. jamesster 05:47, 5/13/2012
Here is what I'm saying:
1. Neither of us to the best of my knowledge know exactly what the name was inspired by, so, although you were correct in saying I was speculating, you are speculating as well.
2. Both theories have the same chance of being correct. LEGO Universe does had a hobby of naming places after real world places, and they also had a hobby of referencing pop culture.
3. Although there weren't going to be wierdly shaped and named aliens in BM, like there were in HL, that doesn't mean that they couldn't have named BM after the location in HL.
4. Although the rock formation makes sense, most people would probably think of HL before they would think of a landmark in Oklahoma, and because of that, I feel that LEGO was referencing HL. Brickenneer 07:08, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
- While it is true that we have no official confirmation regarding Brick Mesa's name, and it is true that the first thing I thought of was Half-Life and not the actual Oklahoma landmark, the reason that I'm disregarding the Half-Life Black Mesa is because there is nothing at all, from what we know of Brick Mesa, that suggests a connection between Brick Mesa and a secret underground laboratory in New Mexico that became overrun by aliens which required the military to step in and, err, "clean things up". On the other hand, the fact that Brick Mesa is very mountainous and has very high peaks does suggest a connection between Brick Mesa and a geographical landmark that is the highest point in Oklahoma. I know it's a bit of a stretch, but it's more evidence than I see for the other Black Mesa. If Paradox Research Facility (a laboratory where an experiment went wrong and caused the base to be overrun by zombies and required a militaristic faction to step in) or, heck, even MoonBase (infested by aliens that were based upon the same "facehugger alien" that Headcrabs were likely based upon) were called Brick Mesa, then I would agree wholeheartedly with a Half-Life reference... but I see nothing here to suggest such a thing.
- Besides, while Half-Life is a rather famous first-person shooter series, it is rated M and, in the pre-alpha days of LEGO Universe (which very obviously was made to appeal to a young demographic), a reference to an M-rated game would seem really odd and out-of-place. Yes, the final game does have a particular quote regarding "chewing bubblegum and doing something else", it's a reference to a well-known one-liner and it's not even the first reference made by LEGO (see Crystalien Conflict), and this is after LEGO Universe went from light-and-soft to dark-and-edgy. --PeabodySam 13:57, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
You're not getting what I'm saying. Just because it was named after something, doesn't mean that it had to share the same characteristics. I'm suggesting we comprimise, and say that it could be either. It's a fair middle ground. Also, it's the right thing to do, since we're both speculating as to the source. Also, there's a Jaws reference in the Everybody's Chum, Chief Brody acheviment. And I wouldn't call Jaws a kid-friendly movie...
Brickenneer 20:39, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
- Except the point of a reference is lost if there is nothing else shared between the reference and source. If I were to make a character and characterize him a sane man who never married, never had a son, never had a cow, had nothing to do with an alternate universe, and absolutely detested science, what would be the point of making a Fringe reference by naming him "Walter Bishop"?
- And you completely missed my point about "chewing bubblegum and doing something else". We can't take "Everybody's Chum, Chief Brody" into account because that achievement is from the dark-and-edgy version of LEGO Universe, which wasn't afraid to make these kinds of references. Brick Mesa is from the light-and-soft version of LEGO Universe, where everybody is happy, smiles, and rainbows, so a reference to an M-rated game in the middle of Wonderland would stick out like a sore thumb. Besides, while Jaws isn't exactly kids-friendly, it is rated only PG, and PG in those days was equivalent to E+10 or T at the most, which is still a lower rating than M. --PeabodySam 20:55, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
I'm just saying, we ought to list both as possible sources. When I've asked people what Brick Mesa sounded like a reference to, they all said Half-Life, and no one said the Oklahoma location. Yes, I know that they might have been wrong, but the whole point of a reference is to trigger a memory, and the Half-Life memory was the memory triggered by everyone I interviewed. I'm not saying that we only list mine, I'm saying we go to a fair middle pont and list both. Brickenneer 01:22, May 14, 2012 (UTC)
- Seems to me that you're completely missing PeabodySam's point; from the information we have on Brick Mesa at this time, there's nothing in the world even related to Half-Life. And, as PeabodySam explained, what's the point of naming something after something else if the thing you're naming has nothing to do with the thing you're referencing? Now, with that said, we don't know a whole lot about Brick Mesa at this time, but from the information we do have, there don't seem to be any Half-Life similarities anywhere, and until a connection between Half-Life and Brick Mesa can be shown, I say we stay with the reference that at least makes a little sense; the Black Mesa real-life location that somewhat resembles the mesa shown in the world map (and yes, if you take a look at the Brick Mesa map, it does indeed look like the world was on top of a mesa). jamesster 01:57, 5/14/2012
"What an incredible trench you've discovered" references the line "What an incredible smell you've discovered" by Harrison Ford in SW ANH and yet the Maelstrom Trench has nothing to do with ANH. I'm not arguing with Sam that the place has nothing to do with Half-Life, but that doesn't mean they couldn't have named it after it. Brickenneer 02:18, May 14, 2012 (UTC)
- It's a reference to an incredibly famous movie that everybody knows. The number of people who play Half-Life pales in comparison to the number of people who have seen Star Wars; for example, jamesster (who is pretty well-acquainted with obscure internet references) clearly did not anything about Black Mesa from Half-Life. Also, "What an incredible..." is the name for a mere achievement; "Brick Mesa" would have been the name of an entire world. Quite a difference in importance, don't you think?
- And while I agree that Half-Life was the first thing that came to mind when I heard the name "Brick Mesa", the total lack of evidence pointing towards such a reference makes me doubt that this was the developers' intentions. If you had told me that Paradox Research Facility was called "Brick Mesa" at some point during development, I would have immediately said, "Oh, wow, a Half-Life reference!" because Paradox Research Facility does bear similarities to Black Mesa Research Facility (they're both laboratories that sustain heavy damage following a lab accident, which results in many scientists being turned into zombies, and a militaristic faction steps in to contain the damage before it gets out). But this... well, I'm leaning far more towards a reference to a geographical landmark that bears similarity to the concept artwork.
- And to further elaborate on my example, say my fictional "Walter Bishop" character had a piece of concept artwork that revealed nothing else about him other than the fact that he was Jamaican. Given all that we know, wouldn't it be far more logical to assume that his name is a reference to a real-life Jamaican than it would be to assume that his name is a reference to a fictional scientist? In the case of Brick Mesa, the "Jamaican" bit is the fact that Brick Mesa is very mountainous and appears to be atop a mesa. --PeabodySam 02:25, May 14, 2012 (UTC)
How about this - "Brick Mesa has two possible name sources: the first and most likely is Black Mesa, a geographical landmark that is the highest point in Oklahoma, the second and more obscure is the Black Mesa research facility from Half-Life."- Will that work? Brickenneer 02:29, May 14, 2012 (UTC)
- Anything is possible, but once we start saying that, we get into speculation. As I said, if all we know about Walter Bishop is that he's Jamaican, would we say that he's a reference to Walter Bishop, Sr. or a completely unrelated Fringe character? We could speculate the latter all we want, but why bother with the latter when the former is much more likely? --PeabodySam 02:32, May 14, 2012 (UTC)
But, we're already into speculation. Just because Oklahoma seems more accurate as the the location, doesn't mean that it's nessacarily it. We should bother with the latter, because neither of us knows the true answer, and we ought to put both answers on the table, and let the readers of the page decide which they feel is the one that is right. Brickenneer 02:40, May 14, 2012 (UTC)
Well, I don't know much about places around America because I'm from the UK. There are quite a few allusions used in the game, I agree with the headcrab reference. The Paradox Research Facility fate does actually reference the Black Mesa Incident. Half-Life isn't M, especially not the first one. LEGO Universe is a 10 and over game, a lot of kids saw Jaws that age. Every kid is different and can be that way if they want. But the Brick Mesa thing is mainly a reference to both, but there are a lot of Half-Life allusions further in the game. I even got the thought that the Spiderlings looked like Antillions. :P 18.104.22.168 08:20, July 26, 2012 (UTC) Wheatley the Core (iStormtrooper)
- Look... there's "allusions", and then there's "similarities". Aside from Grabbles (and that's only a "maybe", since it's likely a reference to the facehuggers from Alien instead of the Headcrabs from Half-Life), there are no explicit allusions to Half-Life in LEGO Universe... only similarities. And every person is different, so he'll have a different repertoire and thus see different similarities, but just because there's a similarity doesn't mean it's an intended allusion. For instance, Paradox Research Facility is similar to Black Mesa, but we have no confirmation that it is a reference or allusion to Black Mesa.
- And if "the Brick Mesa thing is mainly a reference to both", then where's the reference to Half-Life? It can be considered a reference to the real-world Black Mesa because of its geography. However, there's nothing to suggest a remote connection to the Half-Life Black Mesa based upon the concept art. Thus, it's seriously unlikely that it's a reference to Half-Life. --PeabodySam (talk) 20:00, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
- By the way, "Half-Life isn't M, especially not the first one"? Here's the boxart for Half Life. The first one. Notice that rating in the corner? M. Not T, not E+10. M. There would never have been a reference to an M-rated game in the pre-alpha stages of LEGO Universe's development, which was all sunshine and rainbows and smiles. --PeabodySam (talk) 20:02, July 26, 2012 (UTC)